I hadn't thought about ABC. I can't imagine why not. I really had hoped this could be settled privately. I guess she thinks it HAS been settled as I have stopped contacting her. She must assume that ignoring me has made me understand that she will never do what is right and it is a simple waste of time to keep trying. You know, the old, 'ignore 'em long enough and they'll go away' bit?
Yeah, I've gone away, but not far and not for long. ABC is next. Then, if she is in a local or state club, I'll contact them. and anyone who wishes is free to contact me and I'll give you the names of the two people and the kennel to avoid.
Karon Adams
Hestia's Handmaiden
Cooking is a Sacred Endeavour
From: boxerlovers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:boxerlovers@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2016 10:03 PM
To: boxerlovers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [boxer lovers] "breeder" problem, next level
Thank You! Good information - good for me to know of course.
I do realize that - same with CKC - you need to be a Registered Breeder with them.
It seems under CKC the same rules would stand:
The person (breeder in this case) has to be a registered member of CKC and that would mean the kennel name would also be Registered, as far as I know. I will double check for MOI as well as others.
If a breeder in Canada acted in that exact manner as described - keeping a deposit when the pup was injured (while still under the care of the breeder, ) and unfit to be sold?? seems odd - then the onus is on the Breeder to [1.] offer the deposit to be held for the next available puppy that meets the requirements of the purchaser OR purchaser has the option of a full refund.
That would be one of the few scenarios that would absolutely guarantee a full refund of a deposit.
Now in this case, it appears that Karon actually paid the entire price agreed to for the pup. Same thing stands: the pup was injured while still in the care and control of the Breeder and that means the Breeder is 100% obligated to , again, offer the purchaser a pup of her choice as soon as the next one became available OR if the Purchaser does not want another puppy - for whatever reason - the Breeder is obligated to refund her money in full.
The only circumstance that would allow the Breeder to keep a portion of the money as a deposit towards another pup [when one becomes available] is if the Purchaser agreed to wait.
No way should the Breeder keep an entire payment, because the FULL payment was made for a specific puppy that due to no fault of the Purchaser, was no longer a possible choice.
The Breeder could then retain a deposit - with the consent of the purchaser - to hold for the first available litter that the purchaser would be able to choose a new puppy from.
A Kennel Club that accepts a person's money for associated privileges should also protect the Buyers and/or the Breeders so long as they are Registered members in good standing of that Kennel Club.
However of that is not within their club description, then in this case, I think Karon needs to seek compensation anyway she can- through the a lawyer if necessary and the cost would be added to her legal demand for reimbursement.
THAT is what would be done in Canada in the same situation but I would be horrified to hear of a registered breeder acting in that manner.
Jeanne
"Cats are not my whole life . . . But they make my life whole! "
On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 12:30 PM, Lisa Wiser lawiser@att.net [boxerlovers] <boxerlovers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
FYI. AKC will not get involved unless the party is an AKC registered KENNEL name (not just registered litters but the actual KENNEL Name). Same with the handler part. Unless the breeder is a registered handler, AKC doesn't get involved. I don't know about CKC. The (American Boxer Club) doesn't get involved unless the breeder is a member of the ABC.
Sent from Beau ... my BlackBerry Z10.
From: Jeanne purrfectlyexotic@gmail.com [boxerlovers] Sent: Wednesday, March 9, 2016 12:53 PM Reply To: boxerlovers@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [boxer lovers] "breeder" problem, next level |
Hi again:
I hope I did not offend you about the 'whites'. Yes, some people are aware of all that comes with them - including the good stuff too! but not everyone and I had a lady say to me a few years ago "why didn't you tell me!"? She ended up melanoma.
At any rate, quite often the males have absolutely beautiful bods!! Not sure why - maybe because being white you can really see the definition!
I esp like the ones with the brown or black eye circle they truly are cute! I also did not mean to say Not to get a white one - not at all~ If I had room I would have one with a brown patched eye! But I would have to alter it as we breed and would not want an accident. all I meant was just ensure you are informed . . . because you are aware - and that goes with any breed, actually - but most Boxer people will ensure they are informed.
Like Curtis said - excellent point - no matter if they are purple - a Boxer is a Boxer and they are pretty much clones as far as their fun loving personality is concerned. I happen to love all of the colours and colour combinations! You will attract a lot of attention too, with your stunning boy! I still stop to chat with Boxer people - - no matter the colour - but am always stopped dead in my tracks for sure, if it is a white!!
Keep up the fight to get your money - she has not stolen it and you would win in Small Claims Court but I would also charge her.
The thing is, she may still get away with offering you a puppy - so your main defence is you were all set and prepared for YOUR initial puppy and then according to her, it was hurt, and therefore you have no faith in her as a breeder any longer and do NOT want one of her puppies, but you want your deposit back. Also wondering why you left such a large deposit???
I'm glad you acknowledge as well about the idiots who try and change an animal in some manner to have something 'different' or a WHITE ONE!@
"It is important to note a few things here. One is that, like brindling, the marking pattern is affected by modifiers, so that a flashy Boxers, while genetically the same as another flashy Boxer, will not be phenotypically the same - one may have a full white collar, the other may only have white "stockings" and no white on the neck. Also, genetically plain Boxers do have a minimal amount of white markings on the toes, chest and belly. Because of the modifiers, a genetically flashy Boxer that is modified to have only a small amount of white markings may look phenotypically identical to a genetically plain Boxer. Finally, because white is a marking pattern and not a coat color, a white Boxer is always either fawn or brindle. If the white covers the entire body, you may never know which color it is (unless it happened to come from two fawn parents)."
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(from an article I have on Boxer colours and genetics) thot it may be of interest.!)
I read your note about her keeping your money as she has bills to pay!! THAT statement will kill her dead in court or court action. You can do this without a lawyer - you know that I hope.
Also let AKC and CKC know of her unethical behaviour!
You go girl!!! Let 'us' know as things go forward and if you need support, I am here for you as I know anyone such as Chris - reading this, will be at your side as well.
p.s. We take $200 deposit. No more than that even if they want to leave more. One never knows. and the deposit is basically that the breeder is HOLDING one of the pups, so it is to help insure you will take the pup when it is ready and not go looking elsewhere because you suddenly see one that is ready to go now. May I ask what the full price of her pups is??
On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 5:58 AM, 'karon' karon@karonadams.com [boxerlovers] <boxerlovers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Hi, yes, I know the problems that come with whites. But another show breeder I know had a white in her litter. I told her I'd take him so long as his health was good. Eyes, ears, that sort of thing. I know they are DQd. But I'm not planning to show. I made that clear when I started shopping for a new baby. This little guy is a beautifully built little guy. If he had proper colouring, he'd likely rule the ring.
But, since I'm not going to the ring, and this guy needs a home, it works out well for use both. His sun sensitivity will be a minimal problem as they will be indoors most of the time, with me. We're looking to teach him to wear hats, sunglasses and shirts as well as his sunscreen. Ah, yes, we will be very careful of his skin.
But, I am NOT a part of fan of supporter of the breeding of "Rare White" ANYTHING! Those backyard breeders are beneath contempt.
Karon Adams
Hestia's Handmaiden
Cooking is a Sacred Endeavour
From: boxerlovers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:boxerlovers@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2016 9:00 PM
To: boxerlovers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [boxer lovers] "breeder" problem, next level
Is it a white Boxer you are looking at?? I wouldn't recommend that.
White is not even a recognized colour in the Boxer breed; white is super
sensitive to weather - they sun burn easily; they cannot tolerate the cold;
the are prone to skin cancer, and they often become, or already are, deaf!
I know I will get slammed by 'white' breeders, but at the same time, they
cannot deny what I say is true.
It can end up being a very costly venture.
There are lots of reputable breeders of fawns (of varying shades!) and
Brindles - of varying patterns and shades,
I urge you to put aside your longing for a puppy and take a bit more time
rather than jumping in because you are so hurt.
I would also report her to the local police and take her to Small Claim
Court and request not only your money back but your costs, and some
compensation for other expenses and for your emotional distress.
Whatever you decide, I wish you the very best of luck.
Let 'us' know how things turn out for you!
Jeanne and lorne
WildThyme Boxers (1980) Ltd.
American and Canadian and some Euro way back
Breeding the beautiful Plain Fawn - a rich red mahogany coat, solid black
mask, white boots and chest; large expressive eyes; and the best
temperament to be found (according to our veterinarians!)
We have Top Champions in our lines, but we are focussing on breeding the
perfect family member more so than show lines.
- *"Cats are not my whole life . . . But they make my life whole! "*
On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 1:30 PM, 'karon' karon@karonadams.com [boxerlovers] <
boxerlovers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>
> *For those who were interested, I wanted to update my "Breeder" issue.*
>
>
>
> *I'm STILL out $850.*
>
>
>
> *This "Breeder" is also a show handler. So, if she has your dog and
> anything happens, she'll probably still demand payment for all the usual
> handling expenses, no matter what happened to the dog.*
>
>
>
> *I should have had a new puppy a week ago. Instead, I am sending in an
> internet fraud report to the FBI. This makes me cry every time I think of
> it.*
>
>
>
> *Whenever she has decided to speak to me, all she has said is, SHE had
> bills to pay, which is why she is keeping my money. never mind how many
> meals I skipped to save up enough for a puppy. Never mind what bills I have
> to pay, never mind that I am now going to be paying twice for a puppy. *
>
>
>
> *(I do have another puppy I should be bringing home in two weeks. A
> beautiful little White who's breeder knows what happened and is willing to
> let me make payments instead of paying up front.) So, now, after spending a
> year putting by $10 or $20 where I could, I'll be spending the next year
> taking out $100 regularly to pay for my new buddy. It isn't that I bemoan
> the price of a great pup, but I DO resent her cavalier attitude that her
> bills are more important than mine. Worse, that her bills are more
> important than simple ethics.*
>
>
>
> *If any of you are in the show ring and hiring handlers, feel free to
> contact me and I'll give you this woman's name. she is a fairly well known
> handler from what I hear and shows quite a few dogs. I'm sure there are
> other owners out there who probably wish they had been warned ahead of
> time. I know I wish I had known what her level of honesty and ethics were
> before I even said hello.*
>
>
>
> *So, now, I have another puppy who will join our household, soon, and I
> won't be doing much travel and any extra cash goes into the puppy payment
> jar. I have contact the FBI and my attorney regarding a civil suit as well.
> I suppose she is unaware that a civil judgment could result in a much
> larger loss of cash and a lien on everything she owns as well as her mother
> (since her mother is also an owner on the dogs and the handling business)
> but, considering her ethics, I can just tell her I have bills to pay and
> need the money.*
>
>
>
> *On the up side, new little boy coming to our house, and I'm shopping for
> a name, the original name I had chosen just doesn't feel right. And, it's
> Spring!!! The seeds are going in the ground, the Daffodils are already
> blooming. The Hummingbirds will be here soon and much is going well.*
>
>
>
> *OH! And my broken back is improving. *
>
>
>
> *See you all in the funny papers!!*
>
>
>
> *Karon Adams*
>
> *Hestia's Handmaiden*
>
> *Cooking is a Sacred Endeavour*
>
>
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Posted by: "karon" <karon@karonadams.com>
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