When LGDs are with a family ...that is what they protect.....like with a herd of goats....PLUS you have the scenearo of the male and female....she is his female and if the male boxer would show any interest in her...the male will defend her being that she is his property to protect .....in his eyes....
First of all our dogs were pure bred and they were both LGDs and that does not make vicious dogs....when you breed LGDs ( of which there are many breeds of LGDs) to other breeds that are not bred for Guardian dogs of livestock, that is where there is a problem...because the pups may take the traits of the LGD or they may take the traits of the other breed. If it is a herding dog then they will run the live stock rather than watch and guard against predators...hunting dogs will try to control the goats/sheep, by grabing them with their teeth on the back of there neck...it does not work...if you are lucky and have a mixed breed that is a good Livestock Guardian.( I have heard of a few) that is not a fact that you can depend on because there are genes of both dogs to pull from...
And yes you are right...I did not ask...becasue I did a lot of research on this kind of breeding and I made the decision from that as I always have... and I happen to know that the pups that we had were and are still very good Livestock Guardian dogs...Our dogs were bred for their guarding ability ..not to show...they are working dogs...
I will agree if the LGDs have been bred as pets for several generations there can be a varible there compared to those that have been bred for guardian dogs...but our Pyrenees was pure bred as a pet and I was worried her instincts for Guarding would not be as keen...but she is fine ..she is with the Anatolian Shepherd and I will say that he is better with the goats than she is...she is a good guardian against predators but she does not put up with anything from the goats like Meloch does... He is a momma in a daddies body...he loves the goats and lets the babies jump all over him... He is not as firm with the bucks though and that makes him a target by himself...but with Sahrah she will fend off the bucks or does that want to buck them....and she protects their food where Melech will let them eat his food if Sahrah is not there...so the two of them together make a good team...She is more dominant but he is very protective of his goats and her...and
us for that matter...when in his territory...when out both of them take on a different personna...big lovable goofs...lol We don't have much company but they have never shown any animosity towards other people when they were out of their pen...but in the pen they would protect and bark at grown ups that approached the pen...kids approaching the fence and gate were ok they saw them as little friends rather than a threat...I did not let any in the pen without us being with them at any time though...Just in case...
I would be worried that if their LGDs consider their family and home as their domain to protect...that a new male coming in may seem a threat to one or all of the above...and when these dogs get in a fight ....first of all they are big and strong and single minded...they are bred to protect and go after the predator and how they see what is in their territory is not always what we see...you have to think like them to understand them...they are different than most pet dogs...
For instance... we also have guinea fowl...and when they first started coming into the goat pen they were fine but a few of them flew to the roof of the shed and came down into the pen from above...and the dogs saw that as a predator coming after their goats and they killed them....but the chickens and guineas could come in the pen from the ground and they were fine....I was upset at first because I did not understand what was happening but then I saw that LGDs will bark and jump at big birds that fly overhead and owls when they hoot at night because they see them as predators as they are...the approach of the guineas made the difference as to whether they were considered a predator or friend...again you have to see with their eyes. LGDs are bred to think on their own and assess the situation and act...not wait for a command...meaning it is in their genes to act this way on their own...you don't train them you work with them . We bonded with the
males first and then a year later brought the females in...and so the males were bonded to us with love an affection...and the
goats first...
I had Sahrah spayed after her second litter because she was letting the baby goats nurse on her as well as her pups and it was taking too much out of her...Meloch is 7 this year and Sahrah is 6 and they have been wonderful LGDs...and lovable...but we only encounter them when we are in their pens each day...they stayed with the goats they don't come into the house.. ..as they are suppose to do to bond with the goats and consider them their charges...That is why I say that since they are in the home they will consider their family their charges and other people may be ok if they have been socialized but another male dog may be a very different scenero...as I said you can try it but I am just pointing out from my experience how they think and that it may be risky for the boxer...because the two LGDs will work together against him if there is a fight and the boxer wont win...Knowing what I know I would not do it...but that is just my opinion
from my experiences with both breeds...
Annette
Alan and Annette Hake
and the animals we love,
on Menookhaw Mountain
Ravenden, Arkansas
--- On Thu, 6/30/11, J Logan <nerinda@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
From: J Logan <nerinda@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: RE: [boxer lovers] New Member getting a boxer- need your thoughts
To: boxerlovers@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, June 30, 2011, 3:25 AM
If the LGD have animals to care for (ie, their own flock) they will behave diffently from pets which is probably why you had problems, Annette.
And you didn't ask, but it is a very bad idea to cross different breeds of LGD with each other. You end up with a lot of problems, including vicious dogs. And no one wants vicious LGD. Believe me.
Regards
Jane Logan
From: boxerlovers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:boxerlovers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Annette Hake
Sent: Thursday, 30 June 2011 1:29 AM
To: boxerlovers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [boxer lovers] New Member getting a boxer- need your thoughts
WOW!!! Tammy.... you are asking for advise so here it is.....
I had a similar situation... I have a female Great Pyrenees and an male Antolian Shepherd out in the goat pen with the goats.... at the time there were no goats in the pen with them because we had sold them....and the LGDs were in one of the pens...
I bought a male Boxer to breed with my female boxer but he was use to being outside so I put him in the pen (formally for goats) next to the two LGDS...everything was fine for a while and then one day... OUT OF NOWHERE... the two Pyrenees and the Boxer were going at each other through the fence gate..between the two pens..... I was really worried that it was a "to the death fight" and probably would have been if they had been in the same area....I could not call them off..The female was spayed but the two males were intact...not sure if that was the problem or
not...but the female LGD was just as ready to fight as the male LGD and the Boxer was ready to take them both on...it was scary...so I got the boxer out of that pen and put him on a run in the front yard and all is fine now...they can see each other at times but it is not like they are within fighting distance of each other...and I am transitioning the male boxer to being in the house with my two female boxers...
The boxer ( Marcus) was 8 mo. old when I brought him home... My LSDs are Male- 92 lbs and female similar weight...Boxer is about 72 lbs now at 4 years old .. not sure what he was at 8 mo. I am guessing about 50 lbs...
Even though that I brought Marcus into the LGDs territory ......they had had run of both pens when we had the goats....the pens are big ...lots of space to get away from each other...
I did not expect that to happen because it seemed like they were getting along fine for several months...then one day....apparently one challenged the other and that
was that...I could not get them anywhere close to each other again...they did not forget the death threats to each other...
Bringing them into your home may not be a good idea...IMO
History behind the LGDs:P
We got two brother LGDs (Anatolian Shepherds) to start with and a year later got 2 Great Pyrenees sisters to breed with the males...at that time of this situation, we only had one male and one female LGD... but when the brothers were growing up together they were together in the pen and all was good...they guarded the live stock together and played together but once we separated them and gave them each a female...they never were able to be in adjacent pens again because they wanted to fight each other...and were very protective of their goats and their females...
You have a male and female and the male will probably want to protect your female from the incoming strange male...that may have been
what happened here too...unless him being a puppy will make a difference...not sure but it is not a good idea in my experience...Both LGDs are very loving to us and obedient but when they got in the fight mode.. They would not call off and neither would the boxer...I had to pull him away from the gate with a leash and it was hard to get him away from there... I can't imagine what it would have been if they were all in the same space together.
LGDs and boxers are both territorial dogs and protectors of what they deam as theirs...so you may be asking for more than you can handle bringing the boxer into that situation...
At first the Boxer will probably be out of his territory so he will be less likely to want to fight.. but as he gets comfortable with his surrounding he may try to make a move towards the female or challenge the bigger dogs and that could get ugly...I think that is what happened with mine...
I would not do it but you have to decide that for yourself ...
Sorry may not be what you wanted to hear but could avoid a dangerous situation in your home....
Annette
Marcus, Maggie and BooSahrah and Meloch
Alan and Annette Hake
and the animals we love,
on Menookhaw Mountain
Ravenden, Arkansas
--- On Wed, 6/29/11, tammylzurak <tammylzurak@yahoo.com <mailto:tammylzurak%40yahoo.com> > wrote:
From: tammylzurak <tammylzurak@yahoo.com <mailto:tammylzurak%40yahoo.com> >
Subject: [boxer lovers] New Member getting a boxer- need your thoughts
To: boxerlovers@yahoogroups.com <mailto:boxerlovers%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, June 29, 2011, 1:09 AM
Hi Everyone,
I have two rescue Great Pyrenees that are roughly 4 1/2 and 3 years old. My stepson is moving in with us at the end of July and bringing his 8 month old Boxer to live with us as well. I have been reading up on Boxers but am curious to hear if any of you have much bigger dogs that you have introduced a new Boxer to? We are hoping the ex-wife will get the dog altered before he comes here next month but it doesn't sound promising so he may be coming to us intact. He is about 45 pounds now and my two are 70 (female) and 95 (male) respectively (small for Pyrs).
We will have them meet on neutral ground for a walk together to see how things go and then bring them all home. He's still a puppy so I'm hoping that my two (Riley and Willow) will be accepting of their new pack member. They generally like other dogs and want to play with them but I belong to a Pyr chat group and I hear tales of two males sometimes fighting for position in the pack. My female is definitely the alpha in charge (behind me!) so it should be interesting to see how this goes. I'm really just hoping to avoid fights and never having had three dogs at one time don't know what to expect. Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
Tammy in TN
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